*******************************

The message <3a11a73c.3908663@news.freeserve.net>

from jhwood@uplyme.freeserve.co.uk (John H Wood) contains these words:

 > The Woodpigeon. Here a mile inland from Lyme Regis on good clear days

> over the last two weeks there have been large movements of

> Woodpigeons to the west. Starting soon after dawn and going on until

> early afternoon with flock sizes up to ca 300 although most are much

> smaller. Smaller numbers of Stock Doves are also involved in these

> movements.

> What are the origins of our winter visiting Woodpigeons?

> Where can I see ringing recovery data on the net?

> John

> Uplyme

> East Devon

Mostly medium term feeding movements I would expect. Damn all

ringing recoveries 28 French and one Germ,an from Briotish ringing

and eight from thje Continent. NO evidence of long distance

movement. Indeed only 54 of over 2,500 recoveries on Britain and

Ireland were over 100 kms.

--

Chris Mead, Hilborough, Norfolk

Chris Mead wrote in message <2000111422514570039@zetnet.co.uk>...

>

>Mostly medium term feeding movements I would expect. Damn all

>ringing recoveries 28 French and one Germ,an from Briotish ringing

>and eight from thje Continent. NO evidence of long distance

>movement. Indeed only 54 of over 2,500 recoveries on Britain and

>Ireland were over 100 kms.

>

Oh dear, I think some of us been here before!

A few recent Woodpigeon counts from just one moorland migration watchpoint

in the Sheffield area:

3rd Nov - 20,300 south or SE

4th Nov - 16,700 south

5th Nov - 6,000 south

9th Nov - 2,000 south

10th Nov - 2,500 south

Not a particularly spectacular year - all time max was 29,230 south on 7th

Nov last year.

I know there is no ringing evidence to support the contention that this is

migration but these sorts of numbers at about the same time every year

doesnt feel like 'feeding movements' to me.

David

> I know there is no ringing evidence to support the contention that this is

> migration but these sorts of numbers at about the same time every year

> doesnt feel like 'feeding movements' to me.

> David

One bird watcher calls something migration, another regular movement.

Do not forget the breeding density of Woodpigeopns is such that

there might be 5 or 10 pairs per ha. over quite wide areas. The

birds can have three broods (even four) anmd so there might be well

over 100,000 Woodpigeons at the end of the breeding season from a

single 10 km square! OK unlikely but if the local movements are

funnelled and only a tenth of the area North of Sheffield is good

Woodpigeon breeding area and the birds are coming off higher ground

to lower ground for the winter WHERE WERE THE OTHERS!

--

Chris Mead, Hilborough, Norfolk

On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:15:09 -0000, "David Williams"

<Rdrwilliams@tesco.net> wrote:

>Chris Mead wrote in message <2000111422514570039@zetnet.co.uk>...

>> NO evidence of long distance

>>movement.

>

>I know there is no ringing evidence to support the contention that this is

>migration but these sorts of numbers at about the same time every year

>doesnt feel like 'feeding movements' to me.

I get a gut feeling that these movements or at least the majority of

them are true migrations. Individual birds in the flocks that I have

seen in early afternoon are showing those subtle differences in flight

that indicate that they have been flying for a considerable time. If

we assume that they started off that day's leg at dawn then at 14:00

at 30 to 40 mph they would have covered 200 to 300 miles. To get to

East Devon at that time could give us a start from the north coast of

France or Belgium.

Chris Mead wrote ...

>. Damn all ringing recoveries 28 French and one Germ,an from Briotish ringing

Now can we come up with a theory why there may be few foreign

recoveries. Let's consider the chances of catching winter visiting

Wood Pigeons. I may be wrong but I believe that mist nets are

responsible for catching the largest number of birds. I mist netted in

an area of London for several years where the numbers of Wood Pigeon

were high and fairly tame, but not one Wood Pigeon did I catch. Again

I have no evidence, but perhaps Chris can put his hands on some right

away, but I should think that a high proportion of Wood Pigeons that

are ringed are done so as nestlings. These two methods would not end

up ringing winter visitors.

>and eight from thje Continent.

Are many Wood Pigeons ringed on the Continent or more to the point in

ringed in areas where our winter visitor would come from?

> Indeed only 54 of over 2,500 recoveries on Britain and

>Ireland were over 100 kms.

This fits in well with my theory that we don't ring many foreign Wood

Pigeons and is evidence that Chris's

>Mostly medium term feeding movements

Don't really exist for 100kms -60 miles is nothing.

If you look at the distribution map for Wood Pigeon in any bird book,

you will see that it is termed a partial migrant. The maps showing

that it is a summer visitor to Norway and Sweden, to all countries

east of Denmark, including eastern Germany, Austria and probably most

of Switzerland and north of both Greece and what was Yugoslavia.

Indeed living in Switzerland for several years I soon learnt that they

were a very shy summer visitor around Zurich. The shyness I put down

to the fact that they probably wintered in Italy!

The birds in this vast area where they are summer visitors must winter

somewhere. I thought it a good idea to search through my field guide

to find other species with a similar distribution, to determine where

they wintered and I discovered that all such species had one thing in

common and that was that they are major winter visitors to the British

Isles. They included: Skylark, Song Thrush, Redwing, , Meadow Pipit,

Starling, Woodcock, Curlew, Lapwing, and a few ducks for good measure

Pochard, Shoveler and Wigeon. Take a look you'll find more. I rest my

case.

John

Uplyme

East Devon