From: Chris Mead <email@example.com>
Subject: Re: [UKBN] Fw: rubbish
Date: 07 November 2000 00:12
>Well done Mike. I too disagree with Nick (and posted earlier) but the tone of some of the posts has been pretty much out of order.
>Chris Mead, Hilborough, Norfolk
>firstname.lastname@example.org or email@example.com Visit www.farm-direct.co.uk/ to find your local farm gate outlets. Visit www.birdcare.com/birdon for bird information
Chris, damn all recoveries of foreign-ringed broad-winged raptors.
I would not go nearly so far as to accuse you of inconsistency in your application of ringing data to the Woodpigeon and Honey Buzzards migration questions. But I would have thought you would have brought into play earlier the raptor ringing data, which are summarised at Ringing Data for Raptors . If you could get the full data on the two HB recoveries in the 1970s, that would be very interesting. Best wishes ... Nick
Below is recent correspondence on this topic on another network.
The message <firstname.lastname@example.org>
from email@example.com (John H Wood) contains these words:
> The Woodpigeon. Here a mile inland from Lyme Regis on good clear days
> over the last two weeks there have been large movements of
> Woodpigeons to the west. Starting soon after dawn and going on until
> early afternoon with flock sizes up to ca 300 although most are much
> smaller. Smaller numbers of Stock Doves are also involved in these
> What are the origins of our winter visiting Woodpigeons?
> Where can I see ringing recovery data on the net?
> East Devon
Mostly medium term feeding movements I would expect. Damn all
ringing recoveries 28 French and one Germ,an from Briotish ringing
and eight from thje Continent. NO evidence of long distance
movement. Indeed only 54 of over 2,500 recoveries on Britain and
Ireland were over 100 kms.
Chris Mead, Hilborough, Norfolk
Chris Mead wrote in message <firstname.lastname@example.org>...
>Mostly medium term feeding movements I would expect. Damn all
>ringing recoveries 28 French and one Germ,an from Briotish ringing
>and eight from thje Continent. NO evidence of long distance
>movement. Indeed only 54 of over 2,500 recoveries on Britain and
>Ireland were over 100 kms.
Oh dear, I think some of us been here before!
A few recent Woodpigeon counts from just one moorland migration watchpoint
in the Sheffield area:
3rd Nov - 20,300 south or SE
4th Nov - 16,700 south
5th Nov - 6,000 south
9th Nov - 2,000 south
10th Nov - 2,500 south
Not a particularly spectacular year - all time max was 29,230 south on 7th
Nov last year.
I know there is no ringing evidence to support the contention that this is
migration but these sorts of numbers at about the same time every year
doesnt feel like 'feeding movements' to me.
> I know there is no ringing evidence to support the contention that this is
> migration but these sorts of numbers at about the same time every year
> doesnt feel like 'feeding movements' to me.
One bird watcher calls something migration, another regular movement.
Do not forget the breeding density of Woodpigeopns is such that
there might be 5 or 10 pairs per ha. over quite wide areas. The
birds can have three broods (even four) anmd so there might be well
over 100,000 Woodpigeons at the end of the breeding season from a
single 10 km square! OK unlikely but if the local movements are
funnelled and only a tenth of the area North of Sheffield is good
Woodpigeon breeding area and the birds are coming off higher ground
to lower ground for the winter WHERE WERE THE OTHERS!
Chris Mead, Hilborough, Norfolk
On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 19:15:09 -0000, "David Williams"
>Chris Mead wrote in message <email@example.com>...
>> NO evidence of long distance
>I know there is no ringing evidence to support the contention that this is
>migration but these sorts of numbers at about the same time every year
>doesnt feel like 'feeding movements' to me.
I get a gut feeling that these movements or at least the majority of
them are true migrations. Individual birds in the flocks that I have
seen in early afternoon are showing those subtle differences in flight
that indicate that they have been flying for a considerable time. If
we assume that they started off that day's leg at dawn then at 14:00
at 30 to 40 mph they would have covered 200 to 300 miles. To get to
East Devon at that time could give us a start from the north coast of
France or Belgium.
Chris Mead wrote ...
>. Damn all ringing recoveries 28 French and one Germ,an from Briotish ringing
Now can we come up with a theory why there may be few foreign
recoveries. Let's consider the chances of catching winter visiting
Wood Pigeons. I may be wrong but I believe that mist nets are
responsible for catching the largest number of birds. I mist netted in
an area of London for several years where the numbers of Wood Pigeon
were high and fairly tame, but not one Wood Pigeon did I catch. Again
I have no evidence, but perhaps Chris can put his hands on some right
away, but I should think that a high proportion of Wood Pigeons that
are ringed are done so as nestlings. These two methods would not end
up ringing winter visitors.
>and eight from thje Continent.
Are many Wood Pigeons ringed on the Continent or more to the point in
ringed in areas where our winter visitor would come from?
> Indeed only 54 of over 2,500 recoveries on Britain and
>Ireland were over 100 kms.
This fits in well with my theory that we don't ring many foreign Wood
Pigeons and is evidence that Chris's
>Mostly medium term feeding movements
Don't really exist for 100kms -60 miles is nothing.
If you look at the distribution map for Wood Pigeon in any bird book,
you will see that it is termed a partial migrant. The maps showing
that it is a summer visitor to Norway and Sweden, to all countries
east of Denmark, including eastern Germany, Austria and probably most
of Switzerland and north of both Greece and what was Yugoslavia.
Indeed living in Switzerland for several years I soon learnt that they
were a very shy summer visitor around Zurich. The shyness I put down
to the fact that they probably wintered in Italy!
The birds in this vast area where they are summer visitors must winter
somewhere. I thought it a good idea to search through my field guide
to find other species with a similar distribution, to determine where
they wintered and I discovered that all such species had one thing in
common and that was that they are major winter visitors to the British
Isles. They included: Skylark, Song Thrush, Redwing, , Meadow Pipit,
Starling, Woodcock, Curlew, Lapwing, and a few ducks for good measure
Pochard, Shoveler and Wigeon. Take a look you'll find more. I rest my